Let’s Talk About… Money

By Jeremy Godwin

What impact does your relationship with money have on your mental health, and how can you manage the two effectively? That’s what I’m talking about this week here on… Let’s Talk About Mental Health — the weekly podcast about looking after your wellbeing, with simple ideas you can put into practice immediately. So, get comfortable, and Let’s Talk About Mental Health…

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This podcast episode was originally released on 11 December, 2022.

Hello and welcome to Episode 159, and thanks so much for joining me as I talk about money and mental health!

I’m Jeremy Godwin and I share simple ideas for better mental health. 

I spent most of the 2010’s dealing with severe anxiety and depression, after a breakdown in late 2011, which led me to want to learn more about my mental health… so I went back to school and studied psychology and sociology, and now I share simple mental health tips for how to improve your wellbeing, from someone who actually understands what it’s like to go through mental health challenges. 

Each week I look at how to improve one specific aspect of your mental health and wellbeing. In this episode I’ll be talking about what money is (and what it isn’t), why approaching money more thoughtfully matters, and how to manage your relationship with money in a considered way. 

And one way you can spend your money in a considered way and help your mental health is to buy my new book, Life Advice That Doesn’t Suck!, where I share 365 simple ways to live a more satisfying life. It makes a great gift for a loved one or yourself, and you can buy it now in print from Amazon or buy the eBook on Amazon and Apple Books (it’s linked in the episode description or you can visit my website at letstalkaboutmentalhealth.com.au). 

So, with that covered, let’s talk about money!

Introduction

Every now and then I get a bug up my backside about something or other that usually ends up being related to either money or injustice (for example, people being discriminated against etc), or both. Money is one of those topics that has always been in the background and yet over the last 20 years or so our focus on money has become more and more prominent. 

I distinctly remember having a conversation with a group of people that I was delivering some training to, in about 2006, where I said that The Simple Life (that reality TV show starring Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie) was an example of what was wrong with society and that if we kept on celebrating people simply for the amount of money they have, especially in the absence of any other redeeming qualities, then we were heading in a dangerous direction where most of us would wind up self-obsessed and putting our desire for money above all else. Now, far be it from me to say that I was right… but, I was right. And so that should give you a fairly good indication of the tone of today’s episode.

So, let’s just get this out of the way upfront shall we? No, money cannot directly buy you lasting happiness and it is not the most important thing in the world… however money is not evil (because it’s an inanimate thing; it’s what we do with it that is good or evil), and money can certainly help you to feel more comfortable, plus it can allow you to pay for experiences and tools that make your life feel more satisfying. But do we really need all the things we think we need? I mean, I had the iPhone XR for four years and guess what? I survived! I know, it’s a miracle. I’ve only just upgraded to a new phone last month and I paid for it outright, after saving for most of the year, so I have no fees or hidden costs, and I’m sure it will do me perfectly fine for the next four years. 

My point (if there is one!) is that, like it or not, money makes the world go around. So much of what we do with our time, energy and attention is caught up in doing what needs to be done to earn a living so that we can, hopefully, build a better life for ourselves. 

We all have bills to pay in order to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table, but beyond that basic sense of survival and self-preservation there are deeper and more complex layers to our courtship with currency… and that’s what I’m going to be exploring today. 

Let me state very clearly before we continue that I don’t believe in the ‘isms’ that form the social structures of many countries — capitalism, communism, socialism — and I feel like money plays a big part in many of the mental health problems we face in the world plus our declining life satisfaction; if my attitude towards these economic structures and belief systems offends you, then I’m going to suggest that not only is this not the right episode for you but this is probably also not the right podcast. You certainly don’t have to agree with my outlook or philosophies on life, but you will need to listen with an open mind and be willing to challenge long-held beliefs in order to start thinking about things differently — because if nothing changes, nothing changes.

And let me also say that I know from personal experience that there is nothing worse than barely scraping by financially; I lived it growing up and I lived it again for a few years after my breakdown, and it’s the most horrendous state of being in survival mode all the time and struggling to make ends meet (especially when you don’t have the money to deal with an emergency or an unexpected bill, or when food prices go up and you have to cut back on your groceries or choose between electricity and food). With all the current cost of living pressures going on in many countries, Australia included, these are difficult times for a lot of us and so I want to be very clear that my focus today expressly includes the fact that ‘survival mode’ is traumatic; everybody should be able to live a life that is better than constantly stressing about where your next meal is coming from.

So, let’s start with some definitions and let’s talk about… 

What is money?

And I think it’s fairly safe to assume that we all know what money is, but just in case you’ve been hiding under a rock for the past few millennia, or have just arrived on our planet, it’s a fairly-universal system used to pay for things, generally being the exchange of products or services. It’s also something we earn; for the most part we each do work, where we offer our own products, services or time to others in exchange for currency or similar. And who knew it was possible to make money sound incredibly dull… but hey, I found a way!

Money has a direct effect on your wellbeing; when I talk about ‘wellbeing’ in my work I’m actually referring to six types of wellbeing: physical, mental, spiritual, social, emotional and financial. I have to admit that I’m a little surprised that it’s taken me until Episode 159 to cover financial wellbeing (and I keep on going back and double-checking my past episode list because I can hardly believe it!) but I think the main reason for that is that I’m fairly opinionated (I know, what a surprise right?!) and so this is one of those topics that I wouldn’t really have been comfortable covering a year or two ago when I was trying to grow my show; whereas back then I was a bit more hesitant and considered, now I just give myself permission to say whatever it is that I feel needs to be said rather than trying to please everyone! 

Anyway, my point is that ‘financial wellbeing’ simply refers to your ability to support yourself (like paying your bills) and potentially also being able to achieve financial goals that are aligned with your priorities. We have to remember that ‘money’ is just some concept that we human beings came up with ages ago, and it only exists because we believe it exists; it’s not actually real, and you can’t take it with you when you depart this world.

And so that brings me to what money isn’t: it isn’t a reason for living. Hell, it’s not even a reason for getting out of bed in the morning. I mean, I know it is, in the sense that most of us (myself included) have no choice but to get up and go to work to earn money so we can pay for things (since very few of us just have things handed to us), but what I’m trying to say is that you could choose to do almost anything to earn a living and so if the driver is money and money alone (especially if that involves tolerating an unpleasant set of circumstances, like working at a job that makes you miserable) then don’t expect to have great mental health, because just ‘going through the motions’ or, worse yet, doing something you hate could be best described as the key to unhappiness. 

There’s a very good reason why I’m so vocal about my old corporate life; I used to work stupid hours at a job that left me constantly feeling like I wasn’t good enough and where, by the last few years, I felt unsupported by management, and it didn’t matter that I was earning a six-figure salary: I was miserable. Completely and utterly miserable. 

My past self would be horrified by the amount of money I live on now, because I earn way less than I used to, yet I’m so much happier than I’ve ever been simply by virtue of the fact that now I focus on what I actually need rather than what I think I need, and because I remind myself that every financial choice has a cost beyond just the monetary cost (and I’ll come back to those two points in a bit). First, however, let’s talk about…

Why approaching money more thoughtfully matters

And it matters because we are constantly bombarded with messages from society, from social media, from our loved ones, telling us that we need to earn more and spend more in order to find fulfilment… but, really? Do we? Says who? Because the last time I checked, buying more stuff just means that we have to work more to pay for all that stuff — most of which just ends up in sitting in storage or going to landfill anyway — and so, honestly, why are we doing that to ourselves? 

I don’t know about you but I want less stuff, and I want to work less hours, because my view of the world is that I want to focus the majority of my attention on the things that matter most to me… and every single time I redo my priorities list I can say hand-on-heart that the only thing in my top five priorities that has any kind of monetary cost attached to it is my home (and more specifically the work we’re slowly doing to improve it and make it more liveable, since it’s a fixer-upper); everything and everyone else on that list has absolutely nothing to do with money or status or whatever. 

Maybe that’s the case for you and maybe it’s not, and either way it’s none of my business, but it’s certainly worthwhile grabbing a piece of paper or making a note on your phone and capturing your own ‘Top Five’ list of what really matters most to you, and seeing how much of that list is about money versus how much is about love and belonging and feeling fulfilled in your life; all the stuff that money just cannot buy. 

There are three groups of people when you say that money cannot buy happiness. Group 1 will agree, because they’ve seen the light. Group 2 will argue until the end of days because they’re so caught up in the system of greed that underpins our economic system that they can’t (and won’t) see beyond that. And Group 3 are the ones who agree but are terrified of not keeping up with what everyone else is doing.

And so, to Group 3 (or any of you, really), I say this: stop comparing your life to everyone else, and stop letting other people dictate what you do or do not focus on. If you want a giant house in the suburbs then fine, you do you, but you don’t need it. If you want to spend $8000 on a designer jacket then fine, you do you, but you don’t need it. 

Here’s what you do need: security and safety. That means a roof over your head, food on the table, clothes to wear and the ability to get from point A to point B. And I’ll add the ability to communicate with the outside world, because let’s be honest here and recognise that it’s virtually impossible to go about your business without a phone now. Apart from that, you don’t need anything else. 

You don’t need eight TV streaming services, you don’t need a garage full of cars, you don’t need 800 pairs of shoes; those are wants, not needs, and the reason why I point that out is that every single choice we make has a price attached to it, whether we recognise it or not, and so if you do decide that you have to have all those shoes then there are consequences in terms of what you need to do to pay for it. That’s not a bad thing, but it’s something we have to be honest with ourselves about; every choice has a price, and only you can decide if the price is worth it. That’s why I live a much simpler life now, on a much smaller budget, because for me the price wasn’t worth it and frankly I don’t think I’d still be here today if I hadn’t have finally realised that fact and made changes to my life, because my old lifestyle was doing a lot of harm to myself. 

If, like me, you find yourself looking at that list of priorities (that I suggested you create earlier) and most or all of them are things that no amount of money can buy, then it’s time to really think about how you’re approaching your life and how you’re making space for the things and people that really matter.

How do you do that? Well, let’s get into the how-to part of this episode and let’s talk about…

How to manage your relationship with money in a considered way

And let’s begin with remember that you are not your bank balance — because I really don’t care if you have one dollar or one billion dollars; how much you have doesn’t make you any more or less interesting. One of the things I’ve always been slightly horrified about is when people talk very openly about the ins and outs of their finances with others, because for me that stuff is deeply personal and I don’t need to hear you tell me over lunch about how much your last holiday cost! I make that point because I feel like by talking about the details of our finances too much we’re sending a message that says money is a critical topic to talk about, and that’s just not the case. Define yourself by more than just what you do and how much you earn. OK, next… 

Think about the choices you’re making and what’s really involved in it — I’ve found that any time I’ve made a choice to do something purely for the money, it has almost always come back and bitten me on the backside in terms of how it’s created additional unnecessary stress or frustration; for me, at least, it seems to be that when my heart isn’t fully in something that it’s usually a sign that it’s going to be a pain in the butt. That doesn’t mean that I haven’t ignored my instincts sometimes when I need to boost my bank balance, but I’ve usually come to regret it due to the cost that decision has made to my peace of mind. My advice is to learn to trust your instincts when it comes to your choices, and I explained how to do that in Episode 156 about instinct. OK, next…  

Make smarter choices — or you could also refer to this tip as ‘think before you spend’ because that’s exactly what I’m encouraging you to do. You know how I said earlier that every choice we make has a cost? Well, every purchase has a cost beyond just the physical dollar amount that you pay for a product or service; each time you make a financial commitment, whether big or small, it has a flow-on effect in terms of what you have to do to pay for it. For example, the amount you pay for where you live then feeds into the work you have to do to service that financial choice, and so it’s necessary to really think about the bigger picture and weigh up all of the pros and cons of your financial choices. On a smaller scale, I’d suggest forcing yourself to stop and think before you shop online, for example, because a lot of what we think we need in the heat of the moment will very likely wind up being not-so-necessary once your emotions have settled. Don’t get me wrong, I still buy myself stuff that I don’t need (I am far from being a saint, and I have a habit of ordering far too many books online — many of which are still waiting for me to read them!) but I do try to delay my decision by adding things to the cart and then coming back to them later on; usually when I do that I discover that I’m less enthusiastic about some or all of the things I thought I really needed, and so I can be much more thoughtful that way. OK, next…

Find balance — and I often say in this podcast that the ideal is to find balance in all things, and money is no exception! Actively find a balance between doing what you need to do to live comfortably versus having genuine peace of mind and being able to focus on the things (and people) that matter most to you. I now say no to a lot of work, and I only have a handful of clients, because I worked out what my minimum requirements are to live comfortably and then I’ve made the choice to not push beyond that. Sure, that means I’m not heading off for holidays on a regular basis or constantly buying new things… but I don’t want those things and I certainly don’t need them. Know what ‘balance’ looks and feels like for you, and incorporate a more balanced view into your life (and I covered how to do that in Episode 49 about finding balance). OK, next…

Know the difference between a ‘want’ and a ‘need’ — because if you’re really honest with yourself, you know that the majority of the things you think you need are actually just wants; nobody needs a specific brand or a more expensive thing over a more basic one. And a part of this is also about knowing the difference between ‘need’ and ‘greed’ because when you stop chasing things for greed, or because you feel like you have to have them in order to keep up with everyone else, you can find greater peace of mind and look at your finances far more objectively (and I covered needs in Episode 137). OK, next… 

Have a budget and revisit it regularly — and yes, I know, this is probably the most boring thing ever, but for the sake of a few minutes every month you’d be surprised at how much it helps you to be smarter about how you manage your money. Write down a list of everything you spend, including recurring commitments and subscriptions, and track that against your bank account at least once a month so you can see where your money is going, which then helps you to be smarter about the choices you make. And that leads to my next point, which is… 

Spend less, save more — because I feel like we should all be working to improve our lives, and to do better, but that doesn’t have to involve acquiring more and more stuff so that you can sit there with your little trophies and feel good about how much money you made. The joy of buying something new fades really quickly (as I discussed in Episode 107, about stuff) and then we find ourselves focusing on the next thing that we think will make us happy; spoiler alert: it won’t make you happy in the long run. Plus the thing about saving more is that you never know when you’ll have an emergency or something urgent that you need to pay for. Here’s the thing: your soul is not going to feel satisfied because you have 18 designer jackets in your wardrobe, but your soul is going to feel satisfied when an unexpected bill comes in, like a $1000 bill to fix your car’s air conditioning just as the weather starts heating up, and you’re able to pay for it outright because you saved instead of spending all your spare cash on rubbish. And yes, that one is from my recent personal experience; I wasn’t happy about having to pay it, but I was definitely happy that I was able to pay it. Even a small amount of savings can make a huge difference; I do that round-up thing where my bank automatically rounds up every transaction I make to the next whole dollar amount and puts the difference in a savings account… you might not think it would make a difference, but it definitely adds up over time. And since I’ve somehow turned this episode from a philosophical discussion about money into some actual tips for managing your money better, my next point is… 

Don’t use credit — because unless you can afford to pay it off to avoid interest and fees, using credit is dangerous. I know. I did it and nearly ruined my life when I couldn’t work because I couldn’t pay my debts. Plus I spent a few years working in the Collections division of one of our major banks and I’ve seen the damage that credit can do if you’re not in a position to pay it off in full each month before the due date. If you can’t afford something then you can’t afford it, and so maybe you shouldn’t be buying it. Yes, yes, I know that could be an insensitive thing to say when we’re in the middle of a cost of living crisis, and I don’t mean it to be, but it is absolutely possible to live without a credit card or without using those ‘buy now pay later’ things. Since being discharged from bankruptcy in 2016 I have not had any credit and I will not in the future. I’d also highly recommend being more strategic about purchases; for example, I kept my phone for four years and have only just upgraded it, and I paid for it outright. It may come as a surprise but it’s doubtful that next year’s phone model is going to be that different from this year’s (or even last year’s), so get yourself off the cycle of trying to keep up with everyone else because that’s how you wind up in debt, or working a job you hate because you have to pay for all this crap that you don’t really need. Instead of worrying about stuff, focus on finding genuine fulfilment in your life — trust me when I tell you it’s worth way more! I covered fulfilment in Episode 114 if you’d like some ideas on how to do that.

Summary and Close-Out

Because when it comes to money and mental health, what it all boils down to is this: money is a means to an end, not a reason for living. It cannot buy you long-lasting happiness, and you can’t take it with you, and so when you really think about your relationship with money it comes down to whether or not you want your life to have some kind of meaning beyond how much you have in the bank. Of course none of us want to struggle and we all need money to live, but there is an enormous difference between ‘need’ and ‘greed’… and so it’s up to you to think about how your relationship with money shapes the choices that you make, and how those choices impact positively or negatively on your mental health and wellbeing.

The choice is yours, as it is with all things related to your wellbeing… so, what choice will YOU make today? 

Each week I like to finish up by sharing a quote about the week’s topic, and I encourage you to take a few moments to really reflect on it and consider what it means to you.

This week’s quote is by ABBA from their 1976 song Money, Money, Money, and it is:

“I work all night, I work all day to pay the bills I have to pay, Ain’t it sad? And still there never seems to be a single penny left for me, That’s too bad.”

ABBA

Alright… that’s nearly it for this week.

Next time I’ll be talking about resolutions. We are fast approaching the end of 2022 and my next episode will be my final one for the year (I’ll then be taking a couple of weeks off and be back on January 8), and so I thought that it might be timely to have a chat about those promises we make ourselves throughout the year, but especially around New Year, and how to approach resolutions in a smarter way. So, next time I’ll be talking about what resolutions are (and what they are not), why setting thoughtful resolutions matters, and how to set healthier resolutions for yourself that actually work.

I hope you’ll join me for that episode which will be released on Sunday the 18th of December, 2022. 

You’ll find many more practical tips in my new book Life Advice That Doesn’t Suck!, and in my recent book, Let’s Talk About Mental Health (Volume One), which are both available from Amazon and Apple Books, and visit my website at letstalkaboutmentalhealth.com.au to sign up for my free newsletter Thursday Thoughts for a weekly dose of inspiration.

Become a supporter on Patreon for exclusive extra benefits, including early access to podcast episodes, and follow my podcast on Instagram @ltamentalhealth plus check out my other account, @jeremygodwinofficial [Edit: account is now @itsjeremygodwin], where I post daily tips sharing Life Advice That Doesn’t Suck — and those are all linked in the episode description on your podcast service.

Thank you very much for joining me today — look after yourself and make a conscious effort to share positivity and kindness in the world, because you get back what you put out. Take care and talk to you next time!

Jeremy 🙂

Let’s Talk About Mental Health is an independent program proudly produced by Reconnaissance Media, helping you find gratitude and meaning. For more information visit reconnaissancemedia.com

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Let’s Talk About Mental Health.
Simple ideas for better mental health.

Let’s Talk About Mental Health. © 2022 Jeremy Godwin.

The information provided in this episode is for general awareness on the topic and does not constitute advice. You should consult a doctor and/or a mental health professional if you are struggling with your mental health and wellbeing. You’ll find additional information on the Resources page of this website.